Historical Accuracy
Score one more point for the preservation community. The unique nature and “sense of place” of the Erie Canal Harbor Terminal has been re-created almost perfectly.
Floating human shit and other trash and garbage have become problematic in the channel. Given that the Canal district used to be filled with whorehouses and other seediness during its 19th century heyday, it is only fitting that the district revert to its pre-sanitary sewer days.
Cronk saw manure piled over two stories high in back of the bams. As one approached, the pile would give the appearance of shaking, quivering. Closer examine (sic) this, if your nose could stand it and you could cut through the clouds of flies, would reveal millions of crawling impure maggots feeding on the excrement.
Hamburgh canal caught most of the garbage from the city. This collected in the almost stagnant waters of the Hamburgh Canal. One hundred and 50 feet below Louisiana at a small slip that reached to the harbor a large propeller from an old tug swiveled continually sucking in the filth-polluted water and kicking it into the harbor. This stirred up huge chunks of concentrated filth, created huge gas decay, babbles, .7 feet in diameter, which would shoot to the surface, explode and fill the air with such a nauseating smell thatpeople would be sick for a week.
The manure piles, the filth of the canal lured swarms of scavenger flies, while the stagnant waters attracted mosquitoes whose stingers inhabitants thou ht must have been fille-I -ith (indecipherable) files. Aboard the canal boat the stable housed two horses. The crew protected themselves with netting. It was the horses in addition to the two which were housed in the barns on the waterfront.”
I can’t imagine anything more enjoyable than enjoying an ice cream cone by the water and …. eew, someone ate corn!
STEEL Says:June 19th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I guess we should just not do anything then. Tear it all down and bring back the parking lots.
steve Says:June 19th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Floatables. You have to love bureaucrats.
“Honey, where’s the sports section. I need to take a floatable.”
Chris Smith Says:June 19th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Your absolutism and inability to comprehend sarcasm make you so incredibly charming, Dave. Head back over to BRO and argue the false logic of “tear them all down” or save a few. As if that is actually the argument…fucking hell.
reflip Says:June 19th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Ah, sense of place. In this place my senses harken me back to…New Jersey.
Anyway, what’s your point?
STEEL Says:June 19th, 2008 at 10:53 am
What ever. You can keep up with your constant and droning “nothing is ever done right in Buffalo” theme.
I am not sure what you mean by false logic.
I will put you down as one who would not have saved the buildings I highlighted today.
Buffalopundit Says:June 19th, 2008 at 10:58 am
@Steel: The theme is that, if you’re going to excavate a sewer outflow and re-create an historical canal terminus for sightseers, it’d be a good idea to re-configure the sewer system to prevent shit from floating around.
As for the buildings you highlighted today at St. Buffalo of Rising, no one here said they “shouldn’t” be saved, or that they “would not save” them. What a dumb and offensive thing to suggest.
hank Says:June 19th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Once Again Buffalo’s City leaders have the foresight of a mole.
Then there’s “We’re working with the Thruway Authority on an easement agreement to access the drain on their land,” Comerford said.”
The Authority System. There should be an “AGREEMENT”? No wonder what little that actually does get done gets fucked up.
Madone! When is foresight going to be a concept embraced in WNY?
Chris Smith Says:June 19th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Dave, you have crafted the classic straw man argument, that’s what I mean by false logic. “There are those who say we should tear down all these buildings”. No one is saying that and by arguing that point, you misdirect positive discussion and prove yourself to be an absolutist moron.
As I have said in the past, I am tired of people giving credibility to some arrogant, condescending asshat in Chicago who has the temerity to scold us about our collective personal investment into the region. Your disdain for the people of this region permeates everything you write.
The cognitive dissonance of those who seek to defend you is fucking maddening.
Buffalopundit Says:June 19th, 2008 at 11:17 am
@Chris Smith: Steel is using the same argument over at Speakup.
He made a very disingenuous, false post about a since-renovated once-dilapidated building, and then received some comments from people that were dismissive of “renovating” the building next door to Tempo that’s been renovated for years.
Because someone had the time, experience, and (most importantly) resources to do the renovation. I don’t quite understand how the community is supposed to basically trespass on others’ property and, I guess, shore up other people’s buildings for them or something. Honestly, I don’t get the point that’s being made, since preservation is all well and good, but it’s sort of outside most people’s jurisdiction.
Hawk (Not Hank) Says:June 19th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Did you really have to say that last line? Just lost my lunch.
Anybody who ever walked or boated that way in the summer knew what was eventually going to find its way upriver. Sometimes the stench was so bad it could be gag-reflex inducing. Nothing like tourists saying “Look at this beauti…, uh what’s that smell, oh my God let’s get out of here!”
Classic
Buffalo Rox Says:June 19th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
What a lot of bitching and moaning.
People involved with this project were well aware that sewer overflows would create this problem. http://www.nywea.org/clearwaters/07-1-spring/07-Buffalo.pdf My understanding is that there is no quick or easy fix to diverting the storm water/sewage coming out of the Hamburg drain.
As you would expect, there was a fixed amount of money to spend. After the project was initially announced, the state scaled back the amount of money that it was allocating to this project (thus eliminating the re-creation of buildings and other historical displays). Costs to move the Sullivans, Little Rock and Croaker exceeded estimates that further drained resources.
There have been occasional articles in the News about Buffalo’s/Erie County’s storm water discharge problems that have only hinted at what could be a tremendous future expense. I can’t find articles online, but my recollection was that the figure bandied about was in excess of $1 billion.
Buffalo/Erie County seem to have the same problem that metro Boston had with raw sewage frequently being discharged into Boston Harbor with storm water. Lawsuits against MWRA and EPA by the CLF and Quincy resident under the Clean Water Act forced the clean up. According to one source, the cost to build treatment plants, etc. in metro Boston cost $3.9 billion. As you would expect, water rates skyrocketed.
I visited the EC terminus and Naval Park on Father’s Day with my family. I believe this was either the day of the poop story or the day after. I can tell you that the place was packed. Nobody was pointing at the doodies or holding their noses. Many of the moorings at the Commercial Slip were taken up with boats. The lonely hot dog vendor certainly seemed to be doing quite the business. I only wish Benderson would start developing the parcel under the skyway so that there is more to do. I think there is a lot of money to be had if it is developed with the right stores (i.e., stores that sell merchandise that you can’t purchase elsewhere).
The sarcastic tone of this post does seem like another “Buffalo never does anything right.” Too bad. It diverts attention from the fact that the rewatering of the Commercial Slip at its historical location and surrounding improvements are an overwhelming success.
BR
Buffalopundit Says:June 19th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
What you’re saying, Buffalo Rox, is that it’s good enough.
I frankly think Buffalo relies on “good enough” far, far too often, and it’s that kind of marginally adequate mediocrity that helps keeps this area back as much as anything else.
It’s hard. It’s expensive. Why bother to do it right when people will show up no matter what.
Dan Says:June 19th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I would think the Buffalo Rising crowd would be overjoyed at the sight of sewage in the Commercial Slip. After all, it just reinforces Buffalo’s authentic, genuine, real and honest character.
“That’s not shit. That’s authenticity. I’d rather have a slip full of real, genuine Buffalo dookies than some sanitized pool in Charlotte or Denver anyday!”
Talkin_Proud Says:June 19th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
The Buffalo Water Board keeps increasing my rates and all I get is this lousy historical smell?
Buffalo Rox Says:June 19th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
BP,
No that’s not what I’m saying. I’d rather that the Commercial Slip be built now rather than delayed until funding for and construction of a very expensive sewage treatment plant is completed.
In your “want” vs “need” parlance, I need the Commercial Slip rewatered and Naval Park built now where a short term solution to a very expensive sewage problem is implemented. The alternative, “wanting” the end to Buffalo’s sewage problems simultaneous with the rewatering of the Commercial Slip with no delay to its scheduled opening seems unrealistic (even if this was Boston, NYC or TO). Hoping for or even finding a big bag of cash from Albany and/or Washington seems like wishful thinking.
I don’t think this project would have ever moved forward with your prerequisite.
BR
STEEL Says:June 19th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Yes Chris people have advocated that each of the buildings shown be torn down when they were at their crisis state. There is nothing false about that. Without the hated obstructionists all of the buildings shown would likely be gone by now. Nothing posted in the Speak-up post was false either.
And Pundit - never said anyone should trespass to shore up buildings. Saying that is disingenuous and false
As for the topic at hand - What Buffalo Rox said.
Buffalopundit Says:June 19th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Isn’t there some kind of shit-eating fish we can introduce to act as a stopgap? It’s pretty gross and while it’s swell that it’s all re-watered and opened, it’d be better still if it was shit-free.
Eric P. Says:June 19th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
BP, I must say the first line of your post .. “Score one more point for the preservation community” although it may be sarcasm / humor / pun or whatever, seemingly blames people interested in preservation for this situation.
That premise does not “float”. You could have just as easily aimed that play on words at someone like Larry Quinn, who is full of shit. That wouldn’t have been fair either.
It is, however, very disturbing that the sewer system is still so poorly designed and easily overwhelmed.
Good Grief Says:June 19th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
So you’re suggesting that this is a problem of historic preservation rather than the inadequacy of Buffalo’s storm water management system??? The real problem lies in Buffalo having far to many impermeable surfaces where rain water is forced into the sewer system, rather than being absorbed into the environment. Another reason we need to stop building parking lots!
hank Says:June 19th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
El Pundito writes
I frankly think Buffalo relies on “good enough” far, far too often, and it’s that kind of marginally adequate mediocrity that helps keeps this area back as much as anything else.
That’s 2 beers I owe ya Alan–well worded.
Buffalo Rox Says:June 19th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Before you complain, I suggest you at least visit the site first. BP, I know you work nearby so I’m extending an open invitation to meet me there some weekday for a brown bag lunch. If you’re interested, I’ll even buy the passes to the Naval Museum so you can get a better look around. I think this is one helluva good first step (compare to the Uniland elevator to the moon proposal for the outter harbor).
While I can understand the knee jerk reaction to the presence of “floatables” (I personally prefer the slightly less technical term “doodies”) in the $53 million Erie Canal Terminus, the report prepared in Spring 2007 by the Buffalo Sewer Authority and Conestoga-Rovers & Associates answers many of the sewage-related questions raised in this thread. Read it.
Simply put, the Hamburg Drain was a known pain in the ass and was not going to be an easy fix. Remediation effort announced in today’s Buffalo News sounds as if the ECHDC is implimenting the plan discussed in the BSA/CRA report. Based on the report, remediation efforts seem reasonable unless you can come up with a huge chunk of cash to rebuild Buffalo/Erie County’s waste water treatment system.
It’s a far stretch to label efforts that went into the Commercial Slip as “marginally adequate mediocrity.” Rather, it demonstrates a lack of understanding of the challenges - political, financial and engineering - that were involved. However, it’s much easier to point at a doodie (or a story about a doodie) and simply say “EEEEWWW.”
STEEL Says:June 19th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
IN Chicago they dump doodie into the Chicago River and then they went and built an entire downtown around it. And with your $2M condo you get free stink. And believe me the Buffalo River smells like roses in comparison.
Timothy Domst Says:June 19th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Canal Street back in the 1880s sounds like it would have been a blast, someone please make a strip club down there that is historically accurate. No one will notice the turds in the river with that kind of distraction.