To steal a line from Geek - anyone who thinks life here is so wonderful because everyone has moved away should rent Roger and Me. The scene at the Flint Country Club would be a good look in the mirror.

Roads are money pits.

We keep dangling this “short commute” carrot out there, hoping to entice people to come here (and Rochester). Clearly it isn’t working. Apparently, we are secretly happy it isn’t working, because if we got what we wanted (population growth), our commutes would get screwed up by all those extra people in our way.

The under employed, unmotivated may blame the area, but chances are that they would have issues with something if they resided in another place also. The pissing and moaning appears to come from those not occupied with focused endeavors, and having to much time to contemplate their own sorry condition.

For example, you have a number of different ways to get to Buffalo. In South Carolina, you don’t have many options. Sometimes you are stuck taking one route and it could be backed up for hours.

So we don’t have it that bad. There are two sides in South Carolina: One side that wants more roads and another side that says they don’t want new roads (or more roads) because it might ruin the landscape.

As for Toronto, you have to remember that there are 5.5 million in the Toronto metro area. Toronto does have a better public transportation system and they have a lot more traffic there as well.

Ok. Pick another city closer to the 2 hour round-trip commute time.

Steve - I mean Howard -

Can’t do. In that link I posted, you’ll see according to that list no U.S. metro averaged 2 hrs/day. NYC was worst at 38 min 1-way avg. Only 3 metros (NYC, Chicago, Philly) were over 30 mins 1-way avg. Everywhere else under 30 mins, so Buffalo’s advantage on avg vs. any metro is no better than about 9 mins 1-way, and with comparisons to most U.S. metros the advantage is much less than that - just a few mins/day.

It adds up, and of course for some it’s longer than avg. But it’s just Caseyesque exaggeration to say numbers like 2 hrs is daily avg elsewhere. And in fact you said “another 2 hours elsewhere” in your $20,000 deal or no deal, which implied over 2 hrs 40 mins (since Buffalo’s 2-way avg is about 42 mins).

Btw, I saw that someone had called you S.C. earlier so that’s why I joked about that. I wonder if Byron is offended that people don’t even give him credit for twisting those development numbers - people seem to blame (or credit) Casey.

I support that statement this way. If you lived in Atlanta, how much would you have to pay to get back your lost commuting time plus get back the anguish it costs you? “

Interestingly enough, if people could find the types of jobs they have in places like Atlanta, they would move here. While the commute time is an advantage, it is clearly outweighed by the lack of solid and repeatable employment, depressed undermarket salaries, and high taxation.

Wherever you live, you make certain compromises. Our compromise is for comfort, light commutes, and mediocrity in just about every walk of life. In Atlanta, people compromise on commute times in order to make more money and have more options if and when they lose their job.

I’ve lived in cities with high commute times and higher costs of living and I’ve lived here. At this particular point in my life, the compromises I make to live here outweigh the opportunity to make a lot more money in Chicago.

Thanks, I’m glad at least one of us did our homework. I haven’t read the commute ranking in a while.

Ok. Pick another city closer to the 2 hour round-trip commute time.

Maybe I should change my screen name to Steve Casey. Thats twice today that I was accused of being his alias. By the way, I always thought that the media was a little fast to demonize that guy.

And by the way, the Census estimates 2000-2005 bear out that most people who exchange Erie County and the Atlanta area do so in the North-to-South direction rather than the other way around by a factor of 2:1.

Anyhow, I wasn’t saying you’re wrong to prefer what Buffalo offers. It’s subjective. Just thought when you stretched that to speak for the majority you went too far is all.

That Forbes article says this:

In Atlanta, 12.7% of commuters spend more than an hour getting to work

Which means 87.3% of commuters down there spend less than an hour.

According to the Census bureau, Atlanta’s average commute is 26.5 minutes (rank #14), and Buffalo’s is 20.7 minutes (rank #54).

See this:
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2002/R04T160.htm

So we’re talking an average difference of 5.8 minutes. Times two, that’s under 12 minutes/day. Times 5 weekdays that’s under 1 hour per week. (Not 2 hours per day as you said.)

That’s under 50 hours per year, so would I (not to mention “nost people”) take an extra $20,000 for that?

I think we often take our blessings for granted. Thats a good position to be in, so I won’t complain about that.

Sure, most of us enjoy the process of getting through the day, but the non-scheduled time each day is often less than 1 hour. Now consider what it would be like to suddenly have to commit another 2 hours a day to something that isn’t the least bit fun or productive - sitting in traffic. How much is that best hour of your life worth?

Imagine what can be done with the 2 hours a day that we have and take for granted. I recently found out that Buffalo’s Leonard Pennario had a brilliant career as America’s greats concert pianist and he only practiced 2 hours a day.

Starbuck, help me with an experiment. Spend a couple extra hours a day away from your family and stuck in traffic. Do that 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, for 1 year. Then ask yourself what you would be willing to pay to avoid that hardship.

Get back to me and let me know what dollar figure you come up with.