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	<title>Comments on: Paint by Numbers Morning Sky Looks So Phony</title>
	<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308</link>
	<description>Buffalo Politics, Buffalo News, Buffalo Activism, Buffalo Events, WNY Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221548</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 03:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221548</guid>
		<description>Is Satish for it or against it? Or is he only interested in getting his double dipping state pensions (one from the Town, one from the State) and his lifetime health benefits!! Oh! I forgot Satish Mohan is for the people and will only work for one dollar, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! The people of Amherst deserve what they get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Satish for it or against it? Or is he only interested in getting his double dipping state pensions (one from the Town, one from the State) and his lifetime health benefits!! Oh! I forgot Satish Mohan is for the people and will only work for one dollar, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! The people of Amherst deserve what they get.</p>
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		<title>By: Eez</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221535</link>
		<dc:creator>Eez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 22:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221535</guid>
		<description>Let's see, have a vacant plot of lead-contaminated land just sit there, or build what would be a huge asset to that particular area (with UB and Pepsi Center right there, as BP pointed out)...AND have a private company (not government aka our tax money) clean up the site. I've been to a few of these types of places down south, and they are always buzzing with activity. We really are our own worst enemies around here, when it comes to NIMBY and being so resistant to change. Note to Benderson: Never mind Chipotle, PLEASE bring in a Joe's Crab Shack!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see, have a vacant plot of lead-contaminated land just sit there, or build what would be a huge asset to that particular area (with UB and Pepsi Center right there, as BP pointed out)&#8230;AND have a private company (not government aka our tax money) clean up the site. I&#8217;ve been to a few of these types of places down south, and they are always buzzing with activity. We really are our own worst enemies around here, when it comes to NIMBY and being so resistant to change. Note to Benderson: Never mind Chipotle, PLEASE bring in a Joe&#8217;s Crab Shack!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221503</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 13:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221503</guid>
		<description>Why did the Amherst Planning board then recomment it not be built?? and What about the master plan if it is such a good project????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did the Amherst Planning board then recomment it not be built?? and What about the master plan if it is such a good project????</p>
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		<title>By: The Amherst Times &#187; Blog Archive</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221502</link>
		<dc:creator>The Amherst Times &#187; Blog Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 13:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221502</guid>
		<description>[...] May 7th, 2008 Lifestyle, News 30 Comments [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] May 7th, 2008 Lifestyle, News 30 Comments [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: The Amherst Times &#187; Blog Archive</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221501</link>
		<dc:creator>The Amherst Times &#187; Blog Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 13:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221501</guid>
		<description>[...] sIFR_callback_0_DoFSCommand(info, args);Paint by Numbers Morning Sky Looks So Phony [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] sIFR_callback_0_DoFSCommand(info, args);Paint by Numbers Morning Sky Looks So Phony [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Whitney Yax</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221495</link>
		<dc:creator>Whitney Yax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 12:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-221495</guid>
		<description>I don't think anyone returned or joined to define what is meant by "fake" in reference to this project:

Roget's Thesaurus suggests these root synonyms for "fake:"
Untruth
Deception
Falsehood
Result of Imitation 

Unfortunately, Denizen, as much as you and I might share disgust with "the plethora of other crappy suburban retail developments nearby," these developments can generally not be characterized as fake, as they rarely purport to be something that they are not.

A Town Centre like that proposed by Benderson, however, IS the self-proclaimed result of imitation of the attractive qualities of either Small Town USA or an urban retail district like EV, such as walkability and combined work-live spaces.  By eliminating potentially unattractive qualities, such as through the exclusion of affordable housing units, along with many of the incidental charms of a non-simulated town center, the developments can also be considered untrue, deceptive, and false in their imitations.

Whether you believe this development will have a positive or negative effect on the region, it certainly cannot be argued to be anything but fake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone returned or joined to define what is meant by &#8220;fake&#8221; in reference to this project:</p>
<p>Roget&#8217;s Thesaurus suggests these root synonyms for &#8220;fake:&#8221;<br />
Untruth<br />
Deception<br />
Falsehood<br />
Result of Imitation </p>
<p>Unfortunately, Denizen, as much as you and I might share disgust with &#8220;the plethora of other crappy suburban retail developments nearby,&#8221; these developments can generally not be characterized as fake, as they rarely purport to be something that they are not.</p>
<p>A Town Centre like that proposed by Benderson, however, IS the self-proclaimed result of imitation of the attractive qualities of either Small Town USA or an urban retail district like EV, such as walkability and combined work-live spaces.  By eliminating potentially unattractive qualities, such as through the exclusion of affordable housing units, along with many of the incidental charms of a non-simulated town center, the developments can also be considered untrue, deceptive, and false in their imitations.</p>
<p>Whether you believe this development will have a positive or negative effect on the region, it certainly cannot be argued to be anything but fake.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-215442</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 03:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-215442</guid>
		<description>Along the lines of people feeling comfortable with familiar stores... how much merit is there in the rumor of Trader Joe's scoping the area? It may seem like just another store in just another upscale 'lifestyle center' (it does seem to appeal to that demo), but to me it's a piece of home. If it doesn't go there, please let it go SOMEWHERE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along the lines of people feeling comfortable with familiar stores&#8230; how much merit is there in the rumor of Trader Joe&#8217;s scoping the area? It may seem like just another store in just another upscale &#8216;lifestyle center&#8217; (it does seem to appeal to that demo), but to me it&#8217;s a piece of home. If it doesn&#8217;t go there, please let it go SOMEWHERE.</p>
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		<title>By: reflip</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-213919</link>
		<dc:creator>reflip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-213919</guid>
		<description>Agreed on that.  I'm expecting an outdoor version of the Eastview Mall in Victor (outside of Rochester), with a few subtractions.  Basically, the only value I see in this project is that seeing a few familiar department stores nearby will make downstate residents feel more comfortable sending their kids to UB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed on that.  I&#8217;m expecting an outdoor version of the Eastview Mall in Victor (outside of Rochester), with a few subtractions.  Basically, the only value I see in this project is that seeing a few familiar department stores nearby will make downstate residents feel more comfortable sending their kids to UB.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-213916</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-213916</guid>
		<description>Generally, these are the criteria used for site selection among upscale chain restaurants and stores.

• Population living in a certain radius (mileage and driving time).
• Percentage of families versus singles in a certain radius.
• Average family and household income in a certain radius.
• Average age of the population in a certain radius.
• Cumulative income of all people in a certain radius.
• Education level in a certain radius.
• Number of jobs in a certain radius.
• Traffic volume at a location.
• Utility availability at a location.
* Appropriate venue for a location (wealthy urban neighborhood, lifestyle center, high-end superregional mall)
• Proximity of other mid- and high-end retail development (positive).
• Proximity of low-end commercial development (negative).
• Property size and geometry.
• Potential return on investment.

As for the waterfront, the likely tenant base is probably going to be much different than a lifestyle center in a middle-to-upper-middle income area.  Expect a mix more like &lt;a href="http://www.legendsshopping.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Village West&lt;/a&gt; in Kansas City, Kansas (the rough-and-tumble little brother to Kansas City, Missouri) rather than Legacy Village or &lt;a href="http://www.crockerpark.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Crocker Park&lt;/a&gt;.

Another thing to consider: high-end chains usually don't open in Buffalo because the demographics just don't work; city or suburbs. They prefer to be in the heart of an area that is solidly upper-middle-class for miles around; Amherst/Clarence doesn't come close to Oakland County, Michigan; the Heights/Hillcrest/Chagrin Vallley suburbs east of Cleveland; Johnson County, Kansas; or even the eastern suburbs of Rochester.  They'll come to the Buffalo area only after they've exhausted most other locations where their paper pushers calculate they can get a greater return on their investment.

I guess what I'm saying is "don't expect the really high end stuff at Amherst Town Centre yet".  Borders, Starbucks, H&#38;M, Coldwater Creek, maybe California Pizza Kitchen or P.F. Chang, but probably not Restoration Hardware, Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, Arhaus, Design Within Reach, or Whole Foods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, these are the criteria used for site selection among upscale chain restaurants and stores.</p>
<p>• Population living in a certain radius (mileage and driving time).<br />
• Percentage of families versus singles in a certain radius.<br />
• Average family and household income in a certain radius.<br />
• Average age of the population in a certain radius.<br />
• Cumulative income of all people in a certain radius.<br />
• Education level in a certain radius.<br />
• Number of jobs in a certain radius.<br />
• Traffic volume at a location.<br />
• Utility availability at a location.<br />
* Appropriate venue for a location (wealthy urban neighborhood, lifestyle center, high-end superregional mall)<br />
• Proximity of other mid- and high-end retail development (positive).<br />
• Proximity of low-end commercial development (negative).<br />
• Property size and geometry.<br />
• Potential return on investment.</p>
<p>As for the waterfront, the likely tenant base is probably going to be much different than a lifestyle center in a middle-to-upper-middle income area.  Expect a mix more like <a href="http://www.legendsshopping.com/" rel="nofollow">Village West</a> in Kansas City, Kansas (the rough-and-tumble little brother to Kansas City, Missouri) rather than Legacy Village or <a href="http://www.crockerpark.com/" rel="nofollow">Crocker Park</a>.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider: high-end chains usually don&#8217;t open in Buffalo because the demographics just don&#8217;t work; city or suburbs. They prefer to be in the heart of an area that is solidly upper-middle-class for miles around; Amherst/Clarence doesn&#8217;t come close to Oakland County, Michigan; the Heights/Hillcrest/Chagrin Vallley suburbs east of Cleveland; Johnson County, Kansas; or even the eastern suburbs of Rochester.  They&#8217;ll come to the Buffalo area only after they&#8217;ve exhausted most other locations where their paper pushers calculate they can get a greater return on their investment.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m saying is &#8220;don&#8217;t expect the really high end stuff at Amherst Town Centre yet&#8221;.  Borders, Starbucks, H&amp;M, Coldwater Creek, maybe California Pizza Kitchen or P.F. Chang, but probably not Restoration Hardware, Ruth&#8217;s Chris Steakhouse, Arhaus, Design Within Reach, or Whole Foods.</p>
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		<title>By: reflip</title>
		<link>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-213907</link>
		<dc:creator>reflip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6308#comment-213907</guid>
		<description>Dan,

Wealth is relative.  Urban is relative.  Connecticut Ave in DC is wealthier than Elmwood.  Given.  But Chevy Chase is far wealthier than Amherst, and far more "urban."  You're being deceptive when you say that upscale stores will only go to urban areas that are wealthier than Buffalo's, but the "wealth-i-ness" of the suburb doesn't matter provided it isn't in a city.  That's a "city vs. suburb" mentality if I ever heard one.

My argument is that the region can only support one of these upscale retail developments, lifestyle center or not.  So, if it gets built in Amherst it will effectively kill any further retail development on the waterfront.

The question in, "What effect will this development have on retail development downtown?"  (Assuming you'll concede they are banking the Bass Pro project on attracting future retail development to the area.)  There's only so much money to go around in the region, so where you put things makes a difference.  Some very vocal residents of Amherst have said, predictably, "We don't want this."  Well, why force it on them?  Unless there's a silent majority out there who've issued an unspoken mandate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>Wealth is relative.  Urban is relative.  Connecticut Ave in DC is wealthier than Elmwood.  Given.  But Chevy Chase is far wealthier than Amherst, and far more &#8220;urban.&#8221;  You&#8217;re being deceptive when you say that upscale stores will only go to urban areas that are wealthier than Buffalo&#8217;s, but the &#8220;wealth-i-ness&#8221; of the suburb doesn&#8217;t matter provided it isn&#8217;t in a city.  That&#8217;s a &#8220;city vs. suburb&#8221; mentality if I ever heard one.</p>
<p>My argument is that the region can only support one of these upscale retail developments, lifestyle center or not.  So, if it gets built in Amherst it will effectively kill any further retail development on the waterfront.</p>
<p>The question in, &#8220;What effect will this development have on retail development downtown?&#8221;  (Assuming you&#8217;ll concede they are banking the Bass Pro project on attracting future retail development to the area.)  There&#8217;s only so much money to go around in the region, so where you put things makes a difference.  Some very vocal residents of Amherst have said, predictably, &#8220;We don&#8217;t want this.&#8221;  Well, why force it on them?  Unless there&#8217;s a silent majority out there who&#8217;ve issued an unspoken mandate.</p>
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