Tielman on the Waterfront
With respect to the elevated I-190 that runs like a gash through downtown Buffalo, we are hardly alone. Back in the 50s and 60s, many other older cities actually wanted to separate their thriving downtowns from their smelly, industrial waterfronts. An elevated highway to make it easy to pass through or commute to downtown was a welcome addition. In Buffalo, the I-190 snakes its way not too far from the shore of the Niagara River, and is at-grade pretty much all the way down until it reaches the Niagara Street exit.
It was placed in that location for one reason - it follows exactly the path of the Erie Canal as it existed during the first half of the last century. The canal terminus (recent legislation notwithstanding) was subsequently relocated to North Tonawanda.
So, when I think I-190, I think of that section that physically (and to some degree psychically) continues the division of Buffalo from her waterfront. A Big Dig project is probably out of the question, since the money won’t ever be there, the Big Dig itself has become somewhat of a liability, and because Buffalo’s I-190 seldom sees the frequency or volume of traffic-tie ups that Boston’s old Central Artery had.
WBFO featured an interview with Tim Tielman recently, who talked about two ideas that he has. One of them involves the Peace Bridge and the 190, but doesn’t address what I had always thought was the biggest problem - downtown.
Instead, Tielman argues that there should be no second span at the Peace Bridge location due to the negative affect that would have on the surrounding community. He advocates for a second crossing should be at the location of the International Railway Bridge. On the New York Side of that crossing are, according to him, loads of unused track and rights-of-way that could be used to connect that bridge to the Scajaquada and a new “boulevard” that would funnel traffic up to the I-290.
In that case, a portion of the I-190 in Riverside could be dismantled.
Glancing at Google Earth, that would affect just over two miles’ worth of roadway. Presumably the expressway that leads to the Sheridan exit, servicing DuPont, the power station, GM Powertrain, and Dunlop would remain intact. Tielman is quite blunt that he doesn’t want to move the 190, he wants to eliminate it. He also doesn’t want a crossing from Canada to be high enough to accommodate ships in the navigable waterway - he wants it to be a liftbridge.
The only entity that has proposed using that location for a new crossing has been the Ambassador Bridge, and they want it to be for truck traffic only. There is no way whatsoever that any entity - public, private, or hybrid - is going to build an international crossing that utilizes a lift bridge or isn’t connected to a limited-access interstate highway of some kind. Period.
Setting aside whether “Boulevard” has become some sort of strange shorthand for “good planning” among some, Tielman all but promises that a “boulevard” along the rail right-of-way would “eliminate noise” and get tractor trailers “off residential streets”. Somehow, this would make us a “really progressive city”.
Tielman explains that Buffalo is “only major city in the Northeast” where you can watch the sun set over the water. Obviously, along the eastern seabord, the sun rises over the water, and Tielman points out that Chicago gets a sunset over “some suburban prairie”. He adds that one of the best places to watch the sunset over the water is Riverside.
A quick scan of your memory or this map will remind you that Riverside is - well, on the banks of a river. If you’re in Riverside, the sun actually sets over “some suburban prairie” in Ontario, Canada.
He also wants to preserve a part of the Skyway south of the Buffalo River, and turn it into an elevated open-air park. It would have to be ADA-compliant. Yes, the views from the Skyway are pretty. No, the Skyway is not “Jetsonian” or in any way futuristic. No, we don’t need teacup rides at the bottom of the Skyway. Yes, the liability of having people traipsing around 100 feet above is mind-boggling.
As it stands now, people could certainly make a utilitarian point about its functionality. But if you remove vehicular traffic from it, it becomes nothing more than an eyesore. If you want a nice view, build a tall building on the outer harbor.
Bill Altreuter Says:December 10th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Have you been to the High Line?? It’s pretty cool, and something like that would be an interesting use. Running and bicycling has taken me over and into a lot of the places you are describing here, and given me a familiarity that I wouldn’t have if I were only familiar with them from driving past. I can’t imagine why the International Railway Bridge site hasn’t received more consideration– and, for that matter, I don’t understand why the Ambassador Bridge people aren’t being embraced.
Tim Tielman is a smart guy who thinks a lot about this stuff, and has a pretty good sense about the fabric of the city. I wouldn’t be so quick to discount what he has to say on this subject.
jack Says:December 10th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Turning the Skyway into a chairlift / gondola would make a fine attraction once the Skyways roadway portion is demolished. Hopefully they’ll take the taken down portion and sink it in lake Erie, creating an artificial reef for fish to breed and divers to explore. Maybe the Senecas will have something connecting them to the Bass Pro , similar to a Tram, that could extend to the base of the Skyway.
Denizen Says:December 10th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
I have to admit that Tim Tielman has a lot of vision and he cares deeply about the city’s urban fabric, but when it comes to how we reach the eventual goal, his order of operations screwed are really out of whack.
The idea that removing a major highway will somehow spur economic growth is absurd. Cities grow when they gain fruitful new residents and business/jobs.
His wild dreams seem to ignore the way tens of thousands of WNYers get around on a daily basis. I despise the car culture just about as much as Tim, but getting rid of highways willy-nilly isn’t the right approach at the moment. Ripping out highways work in an economically relevant city with strong public transit system and a dense downtown core full of jobs, (like San Francisco) but in the Buffalo area most of the jobs and shopping is scattered throughout the auto-dependent burbs, meaning the majority of people are stuck relying on car transportation for just about everything.
I do agree that portions of the 190 should eventually be taken down though. The Niagara Thruway, as a shortcut to conveniently allow motorists to BYPASS downtown does the city very little good. I agree with Alan that any talk of getting rid of the 190 should focus on the elevated downtown stretch of the road. Get rid of the elevated eyesore portion but keep both ends which conveniently bring traffic IN to downtown; removal of this section will allow the downtown grid to be reweaved with the waterfront and become more attractive for decent development. Focusing instead on the Riverside section is misdirecting energy at this point.
BuffaloRox Says:December 10th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
I don’t give Tielman’s ideas any special consideration. Given the ABG’s desire to tie into the Scajaquada, I don’t see how that stretch would ever be downgraded if that happened. In fact, I think it would be more heavily used and likely upgraded to add more lanes for all the tractor trailors. NYDOT engineer expressed serious skepticism that a bridge at the IRR site would ever move forward. I’d seriously be interested in learning how the Scajaquada could co-exist with a bridge at the IRR site.
Foxy Lady Says:December 10th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
I took the walking tour provided by the ABG several years ago and it was a very large footprint on that part of Riverside. The residents do not want a bridge in place of the International RR Bridge and do not want all the truck traffic and poor quality of air from diesel engines. The I-190 was another mistake in separating that part of Buffalo from valuable waterfront use. There will be a lot of opposition from wealthy Canadian residents if the ABG group does try and purchase land on Canadian soil to build their truck bridge. They’re only interested in the bottom line and that is $$$ in their pockets.
STEEL Says:December 10th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Some day these highways have to be removed from the waterfront. The travesty of 100% of the waterfront being cut from the city has to be rectified at some point. Use of unused rail rights of way is a smart approach to relocating these city destroyers. Denizen is absolutely right about the downtown elevated portion as well. The thruway does not need to pass right by downtown. It just needs to lead up to downtown. This section could be truncated with traffic diverted onto city streets to filter into downtown.
Christopher Smith Says:December 10th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
It’s a travesty how Lakeshore Drive and its six lanes of 55MPH traffic has absolutely destroyed the Chicago waterfront. It’s a travesty how the Gardiner Expressway has long held back waterfront development in Toronto.
hank kaczmarek Says:December 10th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
OUCH—TIELMAN done hit a nerve
FIFTY YEARS AGO—When Hank was a rug rat in a diaper, The residents of Riverside were told by the State that their beloved Towpath was going to disappear, replaced by a 4 lane interstate highway.
The outcry was deafening—There were many Social Clubs, Fishing Clubs, and plain old fishin’ shacks along the towpath. The “MAYOR OF THE TOWPATH” election was more important to the residents of Black-Rock/Riverside than the Mayor of Buffalo election.
4th of July fireworks would be lit off from a barge in the river, or from Strawberry Island, and the neighborhood would sit up along Niagara Street, or on the 2 levels sloping down to what is now the thruway roadway, to watch.
If you stand anywhere on Niagara Street from just north of Ontario Street to the foot of Sheridan Drive (most of the distance of I-190 that Tielman wants to see disappear), the sun DOES look like it’s setting into the water between Canada and Strawberry Island. I’ve seen that sunset a good thousand times. And its one of the most enduring scenes of WNY that I have. I had a picture of just that sunset you described in my wall locker when I was overseas.
I know what a lot of people think of Tielman in WNY. Mixed bag, and I don’t disagree.
But if it could happen……If Riverside was given her River-Side back, the effect on property values and restoration of the decaying homes along the river would be meteoric.
The neigborhood could have a transition not unlike South Boston neigborhoods did in the early 80’s. I recently saw an artist on TV say he bought a building for his studio and office in 82 in S. Boston for 140,000 and everyone told him he was nuts. Last offer on the building was 2.3 million dollars.
It’s probably just a well intentioned pipe dream, but when you grow up in a place you know to be safe, and now bodies are dumped on the streets and girls get raped in the park, well, you want to dream it will see better days ahead.
dave in Rocha Says:December 10th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Geek.
TseTse Says:December 10th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Talk is cheap. The 190 and skyway are going to be with us for yers to come. Do you spend hundreds of millions of dollars to move the 190 or use that money to create new jobs. This is Buffalo not SIM CITY.
Buffalo Geek Says:December 10th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Tielman, Continued…
In our ongoing attempt to tag team issues with our differing approaches and attitudes, BuffaloPundit posted a comprehensive and intellectual response to Tim Tielman’s WBFO interview. During the 20 minute interview, Tielman stated his desire to …
hank kaczmarek Says:December 11th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Geez, what would the chances be that moving the 190 and the skyway would keep several thousand construction workers busy for several years?
Sorry Tse Tse, those wouldn’t be GOVERNMENT jobs, they’d be private sector. Demolition, grading/clearing,road building. That might help move Government from its status as largest employer in WNY. Oops, can’t have that.
The idea to move 190 away from the river has been discussed seriously at least twice in the last 20 years. Both times the old NY Central RR tracks through inner Riverside and Black Rock into Kenmore and the Town f Tonawanda, connecting the old 190 from the Scajaquada to Sheridan Dr has been used. Suburbanites don’t want an interstate, even if there’s no Backyards for it to go thru. Idea scrapped x2.
It’s a good idea, and would give the city more greenway. Can’t be a bad idea. Workable is another story.
Mike Miller Says:December 11th, 2007 at 6:50 am
Stop the insanity!
Do any of us really feel that this idea would ever stand a chance of becoming a reality in our lifetimes?
Christopher Smith Says:December 11th, 2007 at 7:08 am
Mike, it’s a pretty slow news week.
Mike Miller Says:December 11th, 2007 at 8:13 am
Geesh, I guess so… give some people a couple of cranes in the air downtown and they believe that anything is now possible…
TseTse Says:December 11th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Sorry Hank, But where does the money for those jobs come from? From Tax dollars of course, not from private investment.
TseTse Says:December 11th, 2007 at 11:45 am
And Hank, when I refer to using that money to create new jobs, I refer to bolstering the budgets of the various development authorities, including the convention and visitors bureau, luring firms here with incentives, tax breaks, etc. Things that will last more than 2 years.
hank Says:December 11th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Tse Tse Says
I refer to bolstering the budgets of the various development authorities, including the convention and visitors bureau, luring firms here with incentives, tax breaks, etc.
WHERE DOES THE MONEY FOR THAT COME FROM?? LET ME GUESS—Ah, THE TAXPAYER?
While State policy in Albany continues to make NY the MOST BUSINESS UN-FRIENDLY STATE IN THE USA, You’re just shit out of luck.
TseTse Says:December 11th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Oh hank I’m so impressed that you can use the phrase Shit out of luck, maybe you should add a Fuck or two while your at it for additional color.
hank Says:December 11th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
I’ll be happy to oblige. Sorry, I write the same way I talk.
Nobody makes you read my comments.
And you didn’t answer the comment.
There’s almost a dozen IDA’s between Syracuse and Buffalo, maybe more.
What are they accomplishing? They deserve more taxpayer money ? Why?
they’re not doing anything!
Convention and Visitors Bureau? Check a recent BP Post, the people who come to Buffalo for conventions don’t even bother to CONSULT the CVB–Save the taxpayers some money and ELIMINATE THE CVB!! Put some Government Employees in the PRIVATE SECTOR.
Have you always been a liberal tool? or did you just pick it up in college?
TseTse Says:December 11th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
What Have local IDA’s accomplished in Buffalo/Niagara .Just to name a few. GEICO operations Center, Citicorp global Payments data Center, BankAmerica Operations Center, HSBC NA operations center(Niagara) , LakeSide Commerce Park . Maybe you’ve been away from Buffalo too long.
timothy s on the waterfront Says:July 13th, 2008 at 7:41 am
[…] […]