How Do You Reverse Years of Decline?
Buffalo is the second poorest city in the nation. According to census figures that are detailed on the front page of the paper, almost 30% of Buffalo’s population is below the poverty level, and a shocking 42.9% of children live in poverty. Buffalo’s median income is $27,850 - the third lowest in the nation.
This didn’t happen overnight, and turning it around is going to take time and will. The article focuses on schools and how important it is that the children get a good education so that they can learn the skills they need to compete in our post-industrial era. It’s hard to do when mom and/or dad can’t afford basic school supplies. It’s hard to do when many families are broken. It’s hard to do when people are so poor that school takes a back seat to just getting by.
But as I posted yesterday, safety is another part of the turnaround puzzle. Whether it’s gang warfare on the west side or petty theft downtown, community policing is the key to changing people’s perception of the city’s safety, as well as the reality. Cops walking a beat, getting to know the neighborhood they’re serving would make a huge difference.
We can CitiStat this place to death, and efficiency is nice. But safety and schools are critical, both in condition and of importance.
As for jobs, the future is in entrepreneurship and small business. We can’t rely on big industry anymore. Whatever the city can do to promote the creation of small businesses within its limits, whether through microloans or a streamlined, user-friendly permitting process, would make a big difference.
TseTse Says:August 30th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Those figures are appaling, but what do you expect when factions fight any development which is not in tune with their personal preferences. Some people don’t ike bass Pro, some people don’t like casinos etc. etc. . But together thats about 2000 jobs at a minimum. Maybe the jobs don’t pay as much as an electrical engineer, but they are better than flipping hamburgers or being in a bread line.
And if I am not mistaken, When unemployment insurance runs out, those people who are no longer recieving benefits are no longer considered in the calculation of the unemployment rate. So it actually may be worse than it looks.
Mel Says:August 30th, 2007 at 9:02 am
Blue-collar work is dead. Get an education or enter the service industry; it’s that simple!
Kevin Hardwick Says:August 30th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Economic conditions in WNY have been pretty bad for years and, for the most part, our politicians have helped the situation. But statistics showing Buffalo is the second poorest city in the nation are a bit misleading.
If Buffalo were in Texas the state constitution would permit it to annex its suburbs at the drop of a hat. In fact, that’s what Dallas, Houston and San Antonio have done over the years. As the middle class leaves the cities for the suburbs, Texas cities reel them back in by annexing the suburbs. If Buffalo annexed Amherst, it wouldn’t be the richest city in the nation, but it certainly wouldn’t be the second poorest. I’m not suggesting, BTW, that the NYS Constitution be changed to provide for easier annexation. I’m merely saying that the use of city, rather than MSA, poverty numbers makes things seem worse than they really are.
Kevin Hardwick Says:August 30th, 2007 at 9:51 am
My previous post should read “politicians have not helped the situation.”
hank kaczmarek Says:August 30th, 2007 at 10:03 am
The question is excellent. The answer has yet to be found.
The reasons behind are many.
Politicians trying to preserve the status quo long enough to fill their pockets and get their pensions, Leaving things either the same or worse than when they were elected.
The Manufacturing unions, who sold out their rank and file, pricing them out of the market, and waved good bye as over a dozen Auto Plants and 2 gigantic Steel Mills shuttered their doors, laying off hundreds of thousands, many of whom left town. No way to increase your tax base.
The Civil Service Unions, who continue to make demands on an area aging quickly and thereby shrinking the tax base even further. No room for compromise by Union bosses in bed with State Lawmakers.
The apathy of those who remain in the area. For every politically aware person like those on this blog, there’s probably 3 dozen citizens pissing and moaning and doing little else to even make themselves aware of what’s going on.
A State Government who has made the Empire State one of the least friendly places to open and run a business, either small or large.
A county government that allows multiple layers of redundant agencies to sap even more capital away from the people.
ex: Does the Village of Kenmore, within the Town of Tonawanda and Erie County, need it’s own police Chief, Admin Staff, Dispatchers and Police officers/vehicles when the Town and the county already have these things? I sure don’t think so. And that’s only ONE example.
It’s like the Marines at the Chosin Reservoir when surrounded by the Chinese Army in the Korean War. General Lewis B “Chesty” Puller, when informed he was surrounded, said “Well, that simplifies things, doesn’t it?”
WNY is similarly surrounded. Where ever you decide to shoot, you’ll hit something that needs fixing.
We need legislators who can point and shoot rapidly, there’s certainly no lack of targets.
TseTse Says:August 30th, 2007 at 10:29 am
The unions had nothing to do with the collapse of the steel industry. In the 80’s US Steel, Bethlehem, and Republic steel went to the reagan administration with what they said was proof that japan was dumping steel in the US below cost. A trade violation. The administration refused to take any action.
As far as the US auto industry, let Toyota, BMW,Honda and Mercedes etc. speak for themselves.
Russell Says:August 30th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
The steel industry in the US was in trouble long before Reagan came to office. Nice try.
TseTse Says:August 30th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Sorry mac but whether or not the steel industry was, or was not , in trouble before or after the reagan administration does not change the fact that the Reagan administration refused the petition from the 3 largest steel producers in the US.
Paul Jonson Says:August 30th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
And it also does not change the fact that the auto industry didn’t learn anything from history and continues to suffer all the while looking for the government to bail them out.
LC Scotty Says:August 30th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Clearly unions were not the only problem, but they were part of it. It’s still a problem today in the auto industry. When someone with no education gets paid 30 bucks an hour to put tab A into slot B, your manufacturing costs are going up and helping to make you uncompetitive.
There’s also plenty of blame to go around. If Tse Tse’s assertion about Reagan is correct (it’s certainly plausible), then there’s another guilty party. Throw in poor management, shortsighted re-investment policies and frequently crappy design and the whole thing will come tumbling down.
To argue that the unions are blameless in all of this is simply incorrect.
Mark Says:August 30th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
i’ll prolly blog about this at some point but i took the bus from all the flashy new and expensive stores at galleria to downtown through inner-cheektowaga through the east side into downtown. it really felt like a 3rd world counrty. even people trying to bargain down the price of a bus ticket. main thoroughfares infested with broken windows and boarded up doors. the people on the streets looked like they had their souls sucked out of them. it puts things in perspective for sure.
Russell Says:August 30th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Here’s an article from TIME showing that Tse Tse is a bit off:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,954409,00.html
Reagan did what he did to help the domestic farm industry and auto makers. The auto unions were opposed to what the steel unions wanted. The steel unions wanted protectionism, but Reagan is not a protectionist. I do not see any mention of Japanese dumping, though. Looks like plenty of blame rests on the unions and I cannot find much to put on Reagan.
hank kaczmarek Says:August 30th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Folks, my father worked at Republic Steel on South Park Av from 1964 until he was medically retired in 1977. If you look at the Mills now, you won’t see them, because they ARENT THERE
When I was 10 years old I went to the mill with my pops in the summer to get his paycheck. I wanted to see what color the buffalo river was running that day, Allied Chemicals’ National Aniline division turned the water neat colors, different every day. Orange, Red, Yellow, —-For those of you born before April 1970, that’s called POLLUTION.
Anyway, my dad came out of the mill and showed me a ship unloading steel less than a mile away, from ITALY. That’s when he told me, if this keeps up, 20 years from now this place won’t be here, and I’ll have no job.
1967 was a LONG TIME before Ronald Reagan was in the white house, in fact there were 2 Democrats before that happened. Tse Tse and other clingers to the Democrat Party like to blame anyone not a Democrat for our nations problems, but in this case that dog won’t hunt.
The problem with the steel industry was also a triple threat.
the Government allowing cheap Steel to be dumped in from Italy, Japan and other countries, and the usual partnership between the United Steel Workers Union, and their willing minions in the Democratic Controlled Congress of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.
For those of you not born back then, in the mid 1950’s Bethlehem Steel and its South Buffalo Railway employed over 30,000 people. Republic, a smaller mill employed about 10,000 people. Related industries like Donner-Hanna Coke Co, and others employed smaller numbers, but overall in WNY as the mills shut down close to 50,000 jobs were lost.
By the time Reagan came into office, Republic was being shuttered, and Bethlehem was a shell, and the Coke co’s were out of business. BLAME NOT RONALD REAGAN. BLAME DEMOCRATIC TRADE POLICY AND THE UNITED STEELWORKERS. Nice Try Tse Tse, someday you’ll get with the rest of the company and release that death grip on the YOONIONS.
hank kaczmarek Says:August 30th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Strange how in several paragraphs I mentioned all types of failures to bring the area to where it is today, and the only thing attacked was UNIONS.
You people will NEVER LEARN.
Non-Union Auto makers are BUILDING PLANTS IN THE US
Unionized Auto plants are leaving, saying they can’t afford to build cars here.
Why can the non union plants flourish, and the union plants are closing?? TAKE A GUESS
c.r. ibby Says:August 30th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Take the cops out of the cars and put them on the beat…but who will answer the 911 calls?
Jwalker Says:August 30th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
well hank, I worked in Bethlem Steel in the mid 60’s while going to UB and we had 22,000+ . I don’t remember anyone looking into a crystal ball and predicting Bethlehem would disappear. But I do know one thing for sure , The plant was shuttered during Reagan administration. the capitulation to accept voluntary japaneese quotas didn’t work. All that remained after that were the operations know taken over by Mittal steel. Of course don’t get me wrong I don’t think the demise of the steel industry was all Bad. There were too many widows in my neighborhood. Too many men who retired on disability, but never live long enough to enjoy their retirement.
Becky Says:August 30th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Hey Hank - you forgot about the sulfur-colored air driving down the 190-south, heck most of South Buffalo & Lackawanna.
The steel mills couldn’t, wouldn’t meet environmental standards. That fits right in with “What color is the river today”.
When fitting tab A into slot B runs the risk of losing your arm, or the air turning your lungs to tar, you’re darn right it’s worth a lot more than minimum wage. When continuity of knowledge is a necessity, pay is better. When discouraging corruption is a priority, pay is better (of course, being in-the-loop & corrupt pays well for a while too). When you care if the employees can buy the product without stealing or selling industrial secrets, pay is better.
When you don’t give a damn about anyone or anything but the now, the CEO, upper management, and the stockholders, Mexico et al will do just fine.
BS Detector (aka Keyboard Warrior & Buffalo Hater) Says:August 30th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Where do you begin? First by facing reality.
WNY is what it is. Smaller than in it’s heyday. You don’t impose the same business regulations on small upstarts as you did with the huge plants of yesteryear.
Then, you face the facts that an area which is losing population does NOT require a growing (or even constant) public workforce sector. Teachers, police, highway, whatever. This is where the beast of public employee unions rears it’s hideous head. Kill the beast or you will surely die.
This is where you begin. Simple answers to a simple question.
“Welcome to Buffalo, set your watches back twenty years.”
Tatonka Says:August 30th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
The 10 wealthiest states, as shown by the same Census Bureau survey that found Buffalo to be the 2d poorest city, include the following – the figure in parentheses is the state’s rank in terms of the highest percentage of its employees who are union members: Hawaii (1), Alaska (3), California (9), Minnesota (10), Connecticut (11) and Massachusetts (16). Somehow their relative high levels of unionization didn’t keep them out of the list of the 10 wealthiest states.
The 10 poorest states, on the other hand, include Arkansas (45), Tennessee (41), Louisiana (39), Mississippi (37) and Oklahoma (36). Somehow their low levels of unionization didn’t get them out of the list of the 10 poorest states.
It’s almost like high levels of union employees don’t really have much to do with whether an area is rich or poor.
hank kaczmarek Says:August 30th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Tatonka, not bad, but still holes.
Areas that USED to have high levels of union employees.
Detroit? Buffalo? Pittsburgh?
Are they still the places where the rich folks live?
Pittsburgh has adapted, and their downtown doesn’t look like downtown Detroit, Buffalo, Flint, etc.
Address the argument.
Subaru, Toyota, Honda, etc offer NO LAYOFF GUARANTEES, and they’re BUILDING.
Big 3 plants have unions that will force workers off the job,
They say they can’t afford to build cars in the USA, they’re CLOSING.
GM Closes Delphi, and Delavan Saginaw Axle, 6 Trico Plants,
Flint is a shuttered shell, Willow Run is EMPTY.
What is the mitigating factor? Foreign Automakers offer health and retirement benefits Why can’t the domestic Automakers compete?
OK, it has NOTHING to do with the contracts they have with the UAW. Nothing at ALL. I’m Convinced, aren’t you?
Tatonka Says:August 30th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
There’s no “argument” to address. You’re simply giving a slightly longer version of your brilliant remark from last year, “UNIONS SUCK!!!”.
TheRover Says:August 30th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
I think the only person who could really make any sense of this is Craig Howard. What ever happened to him and his site anyway?
Russell Says:August 30th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Correlation does not mean causation. There are a whole bunch of people on here that repeatedly only give correlations and think that’s all that matters. You need to go a little deeper to have a solid argument. Some of you rely way too much on anecdotal evidence which proves very little.
Russell Says:August 30th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
And Tatonka, if you want to give the whole story, tell us how rich and well off all the states with the highest union membership are. Considering NY and NJ are #2 and #4, I think your point is blown. When you add in that NY, IL, NJ, MI, and PA have the 2 through 6 highest numbers of union members you lose even more credibility. If you compared union membership and unemployment rates, I think you’d get an even better indicator.
Just because some of the richer states have high union membership, that does not prove your point. The fact that high union membership does not equal rich state blows your whole argument out of the water. I’m sure you’re in even more trouble if you did a comparison using only cities, but I think your point is already worthless, so that’d just be beating a dead horse.
Russell Says:August 30th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Sorry, one more thing for Tatonka. Where did you get your statistics? Alaska has the 4th worst unemployment rate in the US, California 6th. Minnesota and Connecticut are in the middle and is 12th worst.
Are unions worried about jobs or rich people. Maybe its like Becky said, “When you don’t give a damn about anyone or anything but the now, the CEO, upper management, and the stockholders…” I guess maybe unions will do just fine according to your method of correlation.
Becky Says:August 30th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Hey Russell, did you just take a portion of my comment out of context and twist what I wrote? Please don’t do that.
The money people (CEO, upper management, stockholders) don’t care about anything other than money and how they can get more. Unions are just trying to maintain, but aren’t going to work for 12 cents an hour…So if the company no longer cares about the country they’re located in, employees health and safety, and never really did care about the environment, out of country works just fine, as long as there’s max profit to be made. If it doesn’t work out, there’s always those nice golden parachutes.
hank kaczmarek Says:August 31st, 2007 at 2:52 am
What Union Employee makes 12 cents an hour?
Becky, Unions have incited class envy (It’s us VS. the Bosses)
since the 1800’s, That dog won’t hunt anymore.
They have no useful function anymore. Through other efforts of the “lets’ make government bigger” leftists, we have Government agencies to do the jobs the unions set out to do.
ERISA, OSHA, NRLB, etc etc.
The Union has only a few set functions now.
1. Take your money in dues, and give nothing back to you.
2. Tell you to walk off the job so the company can move your job somewhere they don’t have to put up with walk-outs.
3. Get you a higher wage, so they can take more dues money, and get you’re employer to look for less expensive labor overseas.
4. Finally, hand you a kleenex when you’re out of a job, the factory closes, and you’re left high and dry.
Of course I could be wrong. I guess you’d have to ask anyone who worked for
Bethlehem Steel, Republic Steel, Harrison Buffalo, the 6 Trico Plants in Buffalo, General Mills, etc etc etc. Unless they’ve all moved to Japan, China and Mexico chasing that Union Job they had.
Yes Tatonka, I think those thousands of permanently laid off workers would say UNIONS SUCK. Hell, leave WNY and ask around. Nobody needs them anymore. They’re self-perpeutating groups who live like a parasite off workers wages, and offer them nothing subtantive in return. If that doesn’t suck, I guess nothing does.
Becky Says:August 31st, 2007 at 7:43 am
Wow - you know someone who actually got a Kleenex?
If you’ve lived in WNY your whole life, and so did your parents, grandparents and extended family, you have at least one relative that worked in the plants and as members of unions. Probably more. I don’t think many of them, if any, lived in the lap of luxury, nor do they after retirement.
Do unions have their downsides? Sure. Lack of unions have bigger downsides. You’d like to believe that things will never again regress to the point where unions were needed, such as worker safety, environmental protection, living wage & reasonable work hours, etc.
If that were true, these same companies wouldn’t be setting up shop in foreign countries with exactly these same issues. Loopholes in existing laws wouldn’t be created to benefit large corporations if they naturally did the right thing for the workers and citizenry at large.
If the corporations can’t hire illegal immigrants to do the work Americans won’t, for the pay & conditions they’re willing to provide (and still make a hefty profit), they take the company to the places where the illegals originate from - instant solution.
I don’t believe a happy medium, “why can’t we all just get along”, is possible for a sustained amount of time. Companies always want to make more money (understandable) and people want to be treated equally as well (also understandable). If every employer were a good employer, then as now, unions would never be desired. Somehow it doesn’t always work out that way.
hank kaczmarek Says:August 31st, 2007 at 9:29 am
Becky–My father was a United Steelworker. for a short time, I was a United Auto Worker.
My mother worked for a company called Sterilon, used to be on Northhampton St. They weren’t unionized. Then the organizers came in. My mom and 3 other workers refused to vote in the union. She told the organizer “You can’t give me anything that I don’t already have”. The Organizer said “We can give you job security”. Mom says “Oh Yeah? What if the plant closes, then what will you give me”. Well, the union got in. 2 years later the company was sold to Gillette, and they moved the plant to Arkansas. Boy, those unions sure help?
I’ve a good friend back home who is retired from Chevrolet Tonawanda. He’s not too pleased about the changes that have to be made in his healthcare plan, NOW THAT HE NEEDS IT. He was promised these benefits by the UAW for many years. Now they’re telling him they can’t do for him what they promised him since 1971. No refund on the dues though!
Russell Says:August 31st, 2007 at 9:36 am
I get it, Becky. Businesses are evil looking to advantage of everyone and anything they can. Unions are the champion of the downtrodden little man and the environment. Why didn’t you just say, “Workers of the world unite”?
And unions are not protectors of the environment by any stretch. Do you remember the infamous spotted owl in the Pacific Northwest? It was unions that organized against the environmental protections. Unions also helped to make it impossible for places like Bethlehem Steel to meet environmental standards.
TseTse Says:August 31st, 2007 at 9:44 am
Hey hank, do you just make things up as you go along?
“By the time Reagan came into office, Republic was being shuttered, and Bethlehem was a shell, and the Coke co’s were out of business. BLAME NOT RONALD REAGAN. BLAME DEMOCRATIC TRADE POLICY AND THE UNITED” - HANK
Ronald Wilson Reagan, was the 40th Pres (1981–1989)
Bethlehem steel chonology from 1965
1981 - Bethlehem’s sales reach a record $7.3 billion.
1982 - Bethlehem reports a record loss of $1.5 billion, the first of five years of losses as the steel industry goes through a period of unprecedented restructuring. Bethlehem eliminates steelmaking at Lackawanna and shuts down or sells other plants, mills, mines and shipyards. Total employment is reduced by more than half in the next five years
http://www.bethlehempaonline.com/steel/steel_history03.html
In 1983 Bethlehem Steel Corporation ceased steelmaking operations at its Lackawanna facility, and the fallout from this catastrophe is still felt to this day.
Over 20,000 workers lost their jobs that year, and the area suffered its first major setback. Thousands of families picked up and deserted the area for better opportunities out west and down south. An entire city, which based its very existence on the plant, was reduced to shell of its former self.
Only three facilities remained: The Coke Ovens, Galvanized Products and a Hot Rolling Mill. The Hot Rolling Mill shut down in 1992 and was purchased by Republic Technologies in 1997.
http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/800/1/64/
So let’s see how this works out - 1981 was Steel most profitable year, but by 1983 the Lackawanna plant was being shuttered? So in whose administration did it happen?
Becky Says:August 31st, 2007 at 10:47 am
“Workers of the world unite”? Didn’t realize I sounded that fanatical. In truth, I’m not. I just don’t happen to believe that the country or even WNY would be a better place to live if unions were outlawed tomorrow.
Big businesses are looking to take advantage of everyone, anything, and anyplace they can. Making money is the name of the game. Some are more ruthless than others.
I stuffed unions in with the environment erroneously. It was included in the same spiel about heartless corporate entities. Environmental protections were one of the reasons steel plants shut down, and to be truthful, in the long run neither the companies or the unions cared about the water or air all that much, as long as work was coming in. I don’t believe that the unions made it impossible for modernization, although it didn’t help. Bottom line, the companies couldn’t cut and run fast enough once they thought they might have to pay for cleanup. Love Canal ring a bell?
I have relatives that worked for Chevy, Ford, and Harrison Radiators and they’re not too happy about the benefit cut-backs either…but at least they’re not in the same shoes as the steelworkers…yet.
Don’t all unions forget about those no longer working? Doesn’t make it right, just true.
Michele Johnson Says:August 31st, 2007 at 11:17 am
I was not at all surprised by the findings of the report.
Economic Development HAS to be the #1 priority.
Minimum wage jobs do NOTHING to lift our people out of poverty.
Improve the quality of life HAS to be #2..If you live in a neighborhood with garbage everywhere,rats infesting your house..half burned properties dotting your street and almost every other house is vacant how good are you feeling about yourself? your community? If you live in a constant struggle for food,clothing and now with school starting again such necessities as paper,pens, crayons( yes these little things mean alot) If you are going to school without the latest sneakers & clothing you are fearing what your peers are going to say( think back everyone…kids can be mean!) This probably sounds foreign to many but this is REALITY in Buffalo.
chesucks Says:August 31st, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Poverty is rampant in Buffalo because of illegitimacy and education.
Russell Says:August 31st, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Sure, Chesucks, Buffalo is the only city in the country dealing with those issues.
There has to be a lot more to the story, Tse Tse, than who was president at the time if a company goes from record profits to record losses in one year. An 800% over $8 Billion drop in business was because of Ronald Reagan? Come on.
Also, that article that I posted from TIME was from October 1984. That’s when Reagan made the policy decision (late September 1984) you said earlier destroyed the steel industry. How is it possible that something he did in 1984 had a catastrophic effect between 1981 and 1982?
Oh, and Becky, you did sound that bad, but thanks for cleaning it up a bit.
Jim Ostrowski Says:August 31st, 2007 at 1:32 pm
“This probably sounds foreign to many but this is REALITY in Buffalo.”
Not for the political class. They are thriving, living large!
Three or four government pensions in one household is really cool.
I heard this rumor. Correct me if I’m wrong. Members of the political class engage in this strange activity called “vacations.” True?
hank kaczmarek Says:August 31st, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Tse Tse obviously suffers from hatred of the Right. Anything to make the argument LOOK like someone else’s fault.
That’s OK, you’ve probably lived in Buffalo all your life, and you don’t know any better.
As I’ve mentioned here before, Toyota was looking for a place to build a transmission plant to hire 1600 workers. They DID look at Buffalo, but figured they’d have no end of trouble from the Unions. So they built in Buffalo–WEST VIRGINIA.
You see, down there 16.00/hr is a LOT of money. And a NO LAYOFF Guarantee–as long as the union isn’t voted in. People drive 2 hours one way to go to work there without complaint.
That plant could have brought 1600 permanent jobs, loads more in its construction, and a multi million dollar payroll to Buffalo NY. But Toyota knew they’d have Union trouble from day one, so they said No Thanks.
Subaru recently built a plant in Indiana. Think they want to train people to build auto components from scratch? Nope, it’s expensive. And they’res PLENTY of laid off Auto Workers in WNY that could have done the jobs with minimal training.
But they didn’t want Union Problems, so they went to a place where they wouldn’t get any—another 1800 to 2000 permanent jobs gone to someplace else, because of WNY’ers undying love for the organizations that caused many of them to be out of a job today—Unions.
Hey, if you want to give your hard earned money to a labor organization that does little to nothing for you, other than donate it to politicians that you may not vote for or even like, or in other states or areas where you don’t live, Have at it.
Just seems kind of stupid to me.
Juan From Clarence Says:August 31st, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Hank, you dont seem to get the big picture. $16.00 is a nice wage anywhere but nothing like the executives pay who always seem to land on thier feet after companies file bankruptcy screw thier workers by bilking pensions and taking health care with them! Representation is what workers need and that will never go out of style. People put their lives in to thier job and get thrown to the curb with no protection all to often. Sure Unions have problems, and they are all not perfect but ask current Union members if they like thier representation and the money they make. Making a great wage and having good health benefits are something everyone should have and companies in our country can provide that to way more people than have these things now. Its just corporate greed, but you already know that I am sure, you just like to pretend that your in the in crowd of these right wing elites while typing from your parents basement…
Haterade Says:August 31st, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Hank doesn’t live in his parents basement … his mother actually lives here. He lives in E. Bumfuc* NC and rolls (literally) into town every once in a while. He talks about how bad he is from 600 miles away … yet slinks in & out of Buffalo without a peep. He is angry because the 22 year-old manager at the autozone he works at yells at him. He jumps into his 92 Escort and drives back to his trailer. After eating his hungry-man dinner he jumps on his Blue Hippo ( how ironic) computer and vents about how bad the place he left 20 + years ago is … pounding the keyboard with his sausage-like fingers, about to stroke out. Lay it down, fatso.
BS Detector (aka Keyboard Warrior & Buffalo Hater) Says:August 31st, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Hank doesn’t live in his parents basement … his mother actually lives here. He lives in E. Bumfuc* NC and rolls (literally) into town every once in a while. He talks about how bad he is from 600 miles away … yet slinks in & out of Buffalo without a peep. He is angry because the 22 year-old manager at the autozone he works at yells at him. He jumps into his 92 Escort and drives back to his trailer. After eating his hungry-man dinner he jumps on his Blue Hippo ( how ironic) computer and vents about how bad the place he left 20 + years ago is … pounding the keyboard with his sausage-like fingers, about to stroke out. Lay it down, fatso.
“Cre-e-e-e-e-e-eek!”
The lid of the coffin opens.
Speak truth about da YOOOON-YONS and he emerges like a vampire at sunset.
Jim Ostrowski Says:August 31st, 2007 at 11:16 pm
My God, this place is beginning to sound like speakup. Back to the Free NY blog.
Haterade Says:September 1st, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Nope … it could be any subject - I just detest that fat f*ck. However , at least he doesn’t hide behind 2 or 3 “alter egos” like another coward I know. Your schtick is getting old, troll.
BS Detector (aka Keyboard Warrior & Buffalo Hater) Says:September 1st, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Moron, I told you my name already, okay? And so what, what exactly are you going to do with it? Nothing, that’s what, so take your fake “tough guy” horsesh*t and stick it you-know-where cuz you’re nothing but a fat, weak, idiotic, typical Buffaloon loudmouth loser and you know it.
And yes, your “tough guy” talk schtick is indeed already quite old. As I told you before, I’m not going anywhere until the RIGHTFUL OWNER of this blog tells me to.
And if you truly have hate issues with a fellow blogger like Hank, you need help. Maybe your yooon-yon provides some cushy mental health benefit at taxpayers’ expense. I suggest you use it.
Besides, you’re always so nice to me at Buddies!
hank kaczmarek Says:September 2nd, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Haterade knows what I look like because he’s seen the Steele Rubber Products website that has my picture on it. I’ve never worked for autozone.
Wanna match W-2’s Pal? And I don’t work weekends, I don’t work nights or 12 hour shifts, and I don’t have to wipe the noses and asses of every convicted felon in the joint either.
You’re an attendant at a 24 hour day care center for grown men.
Big Deal.
But you probably make more Haterade, but the IRS doesn’t get any tax info from income recieved from selling dope to inmates.
Hate someone you’ve never met. You’ve got some serious issues in your life. And before I just thought you were a 200lb asshole. You could use some therapy.
I read Kos at least once a week and I don’t hate any of the people who’s posts I’ve read. Maybe I think some of them are nuts, but Hate is a tough word.
BS Detector (aka Keyboard Warrior & Buffalo Hater) Says:September 2nd, 2007 at 8:11 pm
And I don’t work weekends, I don’t work nights or 12 hour shifts, and I don’t have to wipe the noses and asses of every convicted felon in the joint either.
You’re an attendant at a 24 hour day care center for grown men.
Hank, he works at the womens’ pen in Albion. He’s particularly hostile lately ’cause one of them kicked his ass again.
Tatonka Says:September 4th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
My only point was that high levels of unionization do not necessarily mean lack of economic growth or high levels of poverty. I have no idea why Russell thinks that that point is “blown”, because I have no idea what he trying to say. Ironically, he’s lecturing the rest of us on the proper way to argue.
Tatonka Says:September 4th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
What he’s trying to say, I meant.
Haterade Says:September 7th, 2007 at 11:28 am
BSD …. I would knock you on your well - used ass. That is a fact. Why not see if the “tough guy” routine IS fake ? C’mon, pussy. I’ll let you know how too get ahold of me …..
Haterade Says:September 7th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Oh, and Hanky … I’m about 215 … half of your fat ass. I guarantee that my W-2 dwarfs yours … and I don’t work weekends either, lardass. Seniority …. Funny that you should talk shit, but brag about when you were a 9/ hr jailer in Va. You talk shit about the very unions that paid for your ride at St. Joes and the food that started you toward the bloated size you are today … because after all, your parents BOTH were union members. More hypocrisy from the obese expat.
scott Says:September 11th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
I’m sorry, but Hank is right. Unions are past their prime. Yeah, they helped reform industry 100 years ago, but now there are gov’t controls in place for that (OSHA, etc).
For all those union supporters out there - ask yourself this. If you were the CEO of an auto company (or any other manufacturing facility), would you open shop in a high union city or a non-union region? If you opened in a unionized area, you run the risk of strikes - which by nature stop your business and drain your bottom line. You also run into the other issues that unions bring - such as promoting seniority over merit.
I’m a computer programmer and not a union member (there aren’t too many unions in IT). I’ve been doing this stuff for 10 years, and if we had unions here I can’t imagine how anything would progress technologically. There would be no incentive to learn new techniques or technology - especially if I had more seniority over someone else. “I have been here for 10 years, I should stay. The new guy, fresh out of school - he should leave”. What if that fresh guy is bright and more motivated to learn new skills and apply them than the lazy veteran? Who wins there? That’s what unions do, and that’s (partially) why our industrial jobs are tanking (NOTE - I said partially).
It’s hard to compete with someone who is eager to learn and work vs. someone who thinks that it is owed to them by the company.
b "Let Them Leave, More Room For Me" Says:October 26th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
I love Buffalo and the area in general. I only hope it continues to stay as small as it can, but still provide jobs for the people in the region. I hate big cities and the costs associated with those big cities. Having lived south, and west I know that Buffalo is a great location, and am glad I’m back. We have it all just look and you will find it, but there is always room for improvement.
Politicians- vote them all out, reduce the pay and let people who want to serve serve, not just the career minded live off the dole corporate tycoons. We have to many over lapping positions.
Environment- use Canada as an example keep it clean.
Taxes- delete some people, projects and reduce costs, no more Peace Bridge studies, simple huh?
Energy- Come on use solar energy, we have more sunnier days than Orlando, Fl.
Water Authority and NYSEG- you work for the people, why is it they they take home millions(?) and people continue to pay? WE NEED A REVOLUTION ON THAT TOPIC. It is not a corporation, it is a public service monopoly that people need.
Keep thinking this thought on People- “Let Them Leave, More Room For Me”.
Stay Fresh
b "Let Them Leave, More Room For Me" Says:October 26th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Reality Check
46% of China population lives on less than 1.00 per day.
http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/article.asp?id=1369
OK I am a UAW member - I like my job, do I think it will last NO
Did I prepared to set myself up financially for the future, with a business, and did I have this business before I unionized - YES
Are unions fair to all -NO
Are corporations fair to all -NO
Do I want a Walmart or shop there - NO
Is NY State a great place to start up a small business-YES
Is it everyones own responsibility to keep a focus on the topic and their own finances- YES
OK I have to stop clowning around and stick to the facts- What a great place the Buffalo area is- if you left, “GOOD”, if you are here make a small difference everyday to improve your and others life’s.
Get an education to keep up with the future - those steel mill days are way gone and have little value, but as a corner stone of the past. Think about those cool windmills where the sky use to light up at night and breath a sigh of relief that the past is behind us.
Really anyone who thinks that the steel mill days were great or working at the Ford plant is fun, get a grip, they are not making millions on the floors and they certainly are not ruining the economy of Buffalo.
Keep it Fresh